In this week’s episode, host Anne Helen Petersen speaks with Who? Weekly podcast co-host and author Bobby Finger about what it was like for him growing up in a small town in Texas.
In this week’s episode, host Anne Helen Petersen speaks with Who? Weekly podcast co-host and author Bobby Finger about what it was like for him growing up in a small town in Texas. Bobby’s debut novel, The Old Place, is fiction – but draws heavily on his own experiences growing up in a town of less than 1,000 people. Plus, we hear from a teen living in a small town now. High school senior Lily Fowler, from Pittsboro, North Carolina, tells us what it’s like to live in a place steeped in family history and how her relationship to her town has evolved.
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Find episode transcripts here: https://townsizing.simplecast.com/episodes/being-a-teenager-in-a-small-town-with-who-weeklys-bobby-finger
Over the course of the last nine episodes, we’ve spoken to people who are thinking about moving to a small town — and people who’ve already made the jump. Today, we do something different: we talk to people who grew up in small towns about how those years were foundational, in some pretty complex ways, to who they’ve become.
It’s my way of getting to a question that I get all the time, particularly from parents: how would a move like this affect my kids? Would they hate it? Won’t the schools suck? Will they feel trapped and lonely, will they be ostracized or bullied just for being who they are? The truth is: maybe. But bullying and being ostracized--that’s not unique to small towns — and a quote unquote “good” school is no guarantee of anything.
This is Townsizing, a podcast from HGTV all about small town living. And I’m your host, Anne Helen Petersen.
I am the person I am because I grew up in a small town. There are parts that were really hard — but they were easier for me because my family had enough money, and I’m cis-gendered and straight and white. But there were parts of it, too, that have led me to the career, the life, and the values I have today. There aren’t any easy answers to how living in a small town will affect a child, and this isn’t a simple conversation.
Which is part of why I wanted to have two very different conversations in this episode. One, that you’ll hear later in the episode, is with a REAL LIFE TEEN who is now in her senior year of high school. She reflects on her experiences growing up in a small North Carolina town where her family has lived for generations.
But first, I talk with Bobby Finger, the host of the wildly popular podcast Who Weekly?, about what it was like for him growing up in a small Texas town. And I mean SMALL, like under 1,000 people small. Bobby’s got a new book called The Old Place. It’s fiction, but it draws heavily on his own experiences growing up, from the beloved and belabored yearly picnic to what it means to be gay or closeted in a town where everyone knows everyone’s business.
INTERVIEW - Bobby Finger
[00:00:32] Bobby: I'm from a small town outside of San Antonio. It's called D’Hanis I went to college in Austin and to UT
Anne: Same.
Bobby: So I loved Austin when I was there. I met someone recently, like over the past week who asked if I'd always wanted to live in New York and I said, no, never. I wanted to stay in Texas. My dream was always Austin. My dream was to move to Austin and be in Austin forever. And then I moved to Austin and I liked it until I didn't. I was laid off for my job and my career got shaken up and I needed to find something else. And New York just made sense for what I was doing, which was advertising at the time. And when I left Texas, and then realized I liked New York and wanted to stay in New York for the foreseeable future. It made me reexamine my relationship to this town where I was from because ever since I left the town, I was slowly, sort of grappling with my past. Past in terms of place. Because when we moved to San Antonio, I didn't like talking about being from a small town. I avoided it at all costs because I was trying to make new friends, new people for the first time in my life. And I thought that if I said I was from this small place, this little tiny town, like under a thousand people town, known for bricks, like country town.
Anne: Yeah, yeah, yeah
Bobby: I thought it would come with these like preconceptions that I didn't wanna deal with. And so I just didn't mention it and it wasn't until I was in college It was easier for me to talk about because it felt like this shameful part of my past for no reason, you know? And then as I got older, I began to embrace this place that I was from, but I still felt weird about it. Like, I felt like I didn't know what, I was always trying to run away from it and changing what I felt about this town. And so this book, among other things, was a way of me really confronting my memory of this place and trying to deal with how I feel about this place and trying to give this place the respect that I didn't always give it. That was really special to me.
[00:02:29] Anne: I, too, didn't know how to talk about being from a small town, because in my head, like, I knew instinctively that there was something uncool about being from a smaller place. You know what I mean? Can you go back in time and kind of describe what your memories are of growing up in a small town?
[00:03:02] Bobby: I was there from the time I was born to the time I was about 14. And part of life there is that you're with the same, you know, 12 people from kindergarten to your senior year of high school. My siblings were because they graduated from high school there, then they both went to UT, and they never moved back. But they were with those same kids, their entire young adult lives, their entire childhoods. And so in terms of friends, my friends were the kids who were in my class. I didn't have friends outside of that class. And honestly, I wasn't really good friends with any of the kids in my class. I never really liked them much, and I don't think they really liked me all that much. It wasn't miserable. sometimes it was. but it was just kind of this, I don't know, low level of, not even, like, not even unhappiness. Like adjacent to unhappiness where you just feel like you're not in the right space. that no one ever quite clicks with you and vice versa. And so I was never super thrilled to be anywhere and I think I was probably like a happy kid, but I didn't really have any friends, and the friends I did have, like, I never really thought liked me and, that was a problem from my young childhood. I never thought that anyone actually liked me because it felt like they were all hanging out without me, like going to the ranch, playing sports, just doing things I wasn't interested in. And so, there were certain things that I really liked, certain classes that I really liked, but for the most part it was just like, when I wasn't at school, I was doing some sort of sport, it's the only thing to do. And I hated the sports! so like, thank God I like my family. I think about that a lot where it's like, if I didn't like my parents and I didn't like my siblings, it would've been, I think, actually miserable for me. But it wasn't actually miserable for me because I could go home and something in the book, in The Old Place, is a lot of the characters have a version of that, and a lot of the characters have the opposite of that, where they, they fit into the town, but they really just don't get along with their family for whatever reason it is. That's sort of something that I wanted to explore in the book all of these potential dynamics. the types of small town resident that you can be. the types of small town resident that I could have been, had I stayed a little longer, or if I didn't have such like a good relationship with my parents. There are all these different ways that small town life can shake out. And I wanted to go through as much of them as I could in this.
[00:05:38] Anne: You do something I think that's really lovely in that you create a best friend for a character who is in some ways kind of like what you're describing about your own experience. Instead of being a tween teen boy who always feels different, there's a tween teen boy who moves in next door.
[00:05:58] Bobby: It was the best friend I always wanted. And again, like this isn't to say that I was this, Oh, this miserable kid who had no friends. You know.
Anne: Oh totally.
Bobby: Like, of course like you are, you are friendly with the people in your class because you kind of have no option. Or you do, but that option really sucks. Right? Like, do you really wanna Do that to yourself?
[00:06:16] Anne: Do you wanna be alone all the time? this is hard to explain. Like people sometimes are like, were you miserable knowing that like you didn't fit in and I'm like, no. I think I saw very early on the ways to fit in. And I chose some of those ways, right?
Bobby: Someways
Anne: I was like, okay, I'll be a cheerleader, right? like, because I was not good at any sports and I was like what I gotta do something if I wanna be part of this. And that to me is just indicative of small town like that there just, aren't a whole lot of options of like, different ways to be.
[00:06:48] Bobby: Especially in those years, it's like the moment you get a car in a small town, the moment you're 15 or whatever, everything changes because a lot of kids in a small town get a car, at least in Texas when they're 15 because they somehow figure out the rules with their family, how to get that learner's permit and how to get them out doing what they want to do as early as possible. But especially pre 16, before you have a car, you're stuck. There's nothing to do. And that's why that neighborhood thing, that neighborly thing was so, I don't know, alluring to me because my sister had a really good friend, not a best friend, but a really good friend who lived next door to us. And everything's so spread out in towns too. Like there weren't those walkable next door neighbors for me. Well, there were, but it was just far enough. And also people don't walk, even though things are fast, they don't walk.
[00:07:38] Anne: I just read the part where you talk about how, like in Texas, like people drive long distances. You have a very specific, like intimate relationship with your car, but people also drive shorter distances. Well, one, because it's hot, but also cuz like their car's right there, like of course you’re gonna drive it.
[00:07:53] Bobby: Yeah. And I thought it was so cool and rare that my sister had a friend that she could just walk to their house and sometimes he came to our house. I remember they loved playing Risk. They liked the same music. They had a pool. I wanted to see what it was like to have that next door neighbor relationship. Because also I think that so much of the cliche of small town life is that everyone has that next door neighbor relationship that “walk in, knock on” and it's just not true. And people are as private as they are anywhere else. They're as closed off as they are anywhere else. It's just sometimes they are forced to have those interactions more frequently than people in cities. And when they do, they tolerate it. and it's usually clear to the other person involved that you are simply just tolerating it.
[00:08:39] Anne: Is there anything that your town is known for? Besides the bricks, in the book there's this Sunday picnic at the beginning of the year that like everyone goes to, and there's also one church and everyone kind of like performatively attends it because it's essentially a community organization, not actually a religious organization. Like what's a weird thing about your town?
[00:09:00] Bobby: That's one of those things. It is, we have a, a similar, they call it the 4th of August. Which has something to do with a major event that happened on August 4th some year. And it's when they have the big church picnic, which is a lot like what I described in the book, But the thing that I find so weird is, anytime there was an event that wasn't affiliated with the church. Because if there was a church event, like a funeral or a wedding or an actual church event, like a holy day or something that had some after party or reception, it was in the church hall, the big event space that was directly affiliated with the Catholic church. but other times the events would be in this place called the Nutrition Center. And the nutrition Center is like this funny thing that I I've never even really had to explain it more than like once, but it's the senior center but sometimes there would be events like a cousin's wedding or the last home game of the year, and then the party would be at the nutrition center, which makes sense if you live there. But if you're trying to explain it to anyone else, it's like, wait, where is this party? It's in the backyard of the nutrition center. Why do they call the senior center, the nutrition center? And I don't have any answers to that question.
[00:10:12] Anne: There's so many weird things like that. Like we would have a dance after every single home game for basketball or football, and they would be called YAC Dances, which was like youth activities com or whatever, and you'd be like, oh, you go into the YAC dance, right? like and now I realize, oh, they were doing that so that we wouldn't go out and drink, right? but then just these, like there are so many things that you accept as a matter of course, like, the nutrition center that are part of the lexicon and the understanding status quo. That are very difficult to explain to other people because it's just, there's no translation., they wouldn't understand like oh, well why don't you get an event space? you’re like--
[00:10:52] Bobby: we're using the nutrition center
[00:10:55] Anne: what are the uh, most ridiculous things that people say to you about being in a small town?
[00:11:03] Bobby: one of them is, well, how small? I get a lot of that like instantly. Well, how small are we talking? Where it's like there's an instant unwillingness to believe that you're from a small town and I'm like under a thousand people. And that's like, okay, then that's really small. So it's like how often are you interacting with people who are like from small towns that are naturally small towns? It's so strange.
[00:11:22] Anne: Like people from Portland, Maine who are like, I'm from a small town.
[00:11:26] Bobby: Well, how small? That's almost always the second question I get when people find out I'm from a small town. Another one is I think there is lack of an accent. Did you have an accent growing up? No Accent. That's weird. and then there aren't weird questions, but there is that sort of thing where it's like, oh, was it like, was there that neighborly element? Like were you just constantly at your neighbor's houses? Like is that what it was like and I don't know. You have to explain that. No, it's, that's not what it's like at all. It's, it's, now I'm just repeating what we've already talked about, but it's usually that, sort of, I don't know, people are, people are like instantly on the offense when you tell them you're from a small town. I also get well did you play a lot of sports? And it's like, yeah, I did. And I hated it. I played all of the ones that were offered because everyone did. football, basketball, baseball. I ran track and I played. these were all very like little league teams. I didn't play. Had I gotten, had I stayed because our move to San Antonio when I was 14 was kind of sudden. I definitely didn't see it coming. And, I was going through the process of like, okay, when I'm in high school, I can't do this anymore. And so I was like, how am I gonna tell my dad that I don't wanna be on any of his teams? You know? And I know that they would've been okay with it because when I'm in San Antonio, I was like, by the way, I'm not playing sports. And they were like, by the way, we knew you weren't gonna play sports. You know, like it, I just didn't have to have those conversations. But I was preparing myself because everyone does it. And I know that even if I would've said, I don't wanna do this, my parents would've been okay with it. But I think I would've had a really tough time in high school because I would've stopped kind of playing along. And I don't even want to think about what life would've been like then. And that's another thing that I wanted to explore in the town. It's like I got out just before things got really tricky, you know? Like I, I think that If you were a teen in a place where you feel completely isolated and completely unlike anyone else, I don't care if that's a small town or a city. I think that those years are the tough ones. And I already did feel that to some degree in a city. So imagine if it had been in this tiny place.
[00:13:49] Anne: I know, and that's one thing when I think about my high school experience, like I was able to fit in and pass because I had money and was straight, right? Like there were ways that it made it easier for me to make that work. And I think one thing that is often left out of these conversations about moving to small towns and something that we would try to do with this podcast is think about, okay, if you're not part of like the dominant status quo of like white, middle class, educated, whatever, What actually, what things do you need to really think about before you move to a place where you might be one of the few people who are like you in some important ways.
[00:14:29] Bobby: And I, again, not to go back to the book again, but that was something else I, I wanted to put in a character that was moving there from a big city and like, try to give this honest perspective as to like the ways that she could prepare herself for it and the ways that she could adjust her attitude for it and the things that she could not prepare for that, you know, really kind of wrecked her psyche quickly.
[00:14:51] Anne: I think sometimes there's an assumption that it's easier for kids who, are different in some way, who are gay, who are non-binary, who are trans, like, who feel just like they don't fit in that the internet makes it easier. Do you think that that's true?
[00:15:06] Bobby: It does. like, I think it makes it easier, but I think the problem is when people say it, it makes it easy. In my experience at least I know that older queer people can look at younger, queer people… And I've been in these conversations where someone says they have it so easy now, like, look at this. And someone else will say, are you kidding me? They may have it a little bit easier, but there's no world in which it's actually easy. It's still harder than, like you said, the status quo. It's still harder than growing up straight cis. You know, like, it's just, it's gonna be hard no matter what. I'm happy that queer kids in small towns who are a little more physically isolated, geographically isolated from things, have the internet. But I, I still don't think that they're in this idyllic, enviable position, you know?
[00:15:50] Anne: You know, one thing that a lot of people ask me about when it comes to like, oh, should I move to a smaller town? Is their thinking about their kids and education and like, sometimes I think a lot of what made me the person that I am in terms of my intellectual curiosities in terms of so many things, was being in a small town. Do you ever feel that?
[00:16:08] Bobby: Yeah. I think about a version of that a lot. I try not to stew in that often because I know I'm happy with who I am now and because I'm happy with who I am now sometimes I have to like make the difficult realization that part of the reason I'm happy with who I am now is because I wasn't so happy with who I was then. I know that there's not this one to one thing where one led to the other. I do think that I became the person I am today because in part I was a weird, awkward, uncomfortable kid in a very small town feeling like he really did not belong and that he was just in the wrong place. Like the first 13 years of my life, I was just like, this is so weird. Especially as someone who loved, you know, books and movies who was just constantly consuming media about other places that were nothing like the place I was from. I was just like, this looks magical. Why am I not there? Like, this is crazy.
[00:17:06] Anne: do you think you could ever move back to a small town, or do you think that that would be really difficult in terms of transition?
[00:17:14] Bobby: Not before. I'm like 60 years old, 55 or 60. I, I have no interest in going back now because again, it's like, I hate cars, I'm so scared of them, like I'm there is a deadly car accident in this novel because it's like one of my biggest fears. Like I'm certain that if I commuted every day to work, I'd be dead before I'm 40. I'm absolutely terrified of cars and I will go as long as I can without having to drive a car every day for, as, long as I can. But I, I also think that like, it's for as nice as it can be because I know people who live in small towns now. Some of them are the people who live in the small town I'm from, and it's totally working for them. And I know that it can be very positive and quite idyllic actually. But like, ah, starting over right now seems tough because you could move to the small town and you could have everything set up but if you don't somehow find that like core group of people, and I know that I will need some, a core group of people. I'm not ready to be isolated 24/7 just yet. Then that's, that's the luck of the draw also, like that you can have the best house in town you can be so rich, unlimited money where you don't have to worry about gas. You could have oil derricks on your front lawn, but if you don't have that community that you like, then what's it all for?
[00:18:28] Anne: this goes back to the book too, that like you can have family ties, you can have a lot of money, you can be building a pool in your backyard, but still it's really hard to, to make those inroads. And that's something that we've talked a lot about in the podcast too, is that there's an expectation that you'll like move into town and like a Hallmark movie, everyone's gonna come and welcome you. But there's a lot of suspicion oftentimes of outsiders also, especially if you don't have kids,
[00:18:57] Bobby: Yeah, you're a weirdo
[00:18:58] Anne: This is something that I deal with too, is that like I am not naturally integrated into the rhythms of like welcoming someone into a town cuz I'm neither retired nor have children in the school system. So what do you do with someone like us?
[00:19:12] Bobby: It's tough and I think it will work If you're fine being isolated, and I know there are plenty of people who are, who will be happy as little clams, if they moved into this little town and didn't make many friends and just wanted to keep to themselves, that's fine. If that's your fantasy, then you could make that work in most places. But like if that's not your fantasy, it's tough. And if I did live in a small town as a 50, 60 something, it wouldn't be in Texas because I hate the heat more and more every year. And by the time I'm that age, like I wanna be freezing all the time.
[00:19:54] Anne: And also the hill country is just overflowing with retirees from California. So
[00:19:59] Bobby: I always think every time a new retiree moves from California or those tech people move from Silicon Valley to Austin, I'm like, I get why you did this in terms of like bang for your buck and you have a lot of money and you wanna get this house and the school districts are good, but I always wonder how long they'll be able to put up. And that influx only started a couple years ago. I'm sort of like tick-tock because I think that you're gonna be sick of this really soon and wanna get out and move north because yikes.
[00:20:26] Anne: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not, it's different than like going down to Arizona or Florida for a couple months. Like, it's…
[00:20:31] Bobby: And if you're used to the heat, fine. But I don't think those people are. I just don't.
[00:20:37] Anne: Actual final last question. Has anyone, from a small town, gotten in touch with you about the book to say this felt like the portrait of a small town that I was waiting…? Like that's part of what I loved about it, is it just felt like a very different portrait of a small town than any that I had read.
[00:20:51] Bobby: A couple of people have… from just random small towns where they didn't tell me where they were from and that was wonderful. But I've gotten a handful of emails like Instagram DMs from people from, small towns in Texas, not mine. that's the best thing in the world to get someone from a small town, a couple of queer people being like, this just reminds me of home. And I'm really grateful that you read it. Like, that's all I ever wanted. I, I've said this before on a podcast, I think talking about the book. One of the greatest things that anyone in my family said to me after they read it. And I was nervous to send it to them was my sister said, I'm so glad you weren't condescending towards our hometown. And I was like, that's all I ever wanted you all to think. I didn't wanna dump on this place at all. I really just wanted to explore all of my conflicted emotions about this small town so that my sister got that just really kind of meant everything.
[00:21:42] Anne: I felt like it was very clear. I love
[00:21:45] Bobby: Thank you. Thank you for saying that.
LILY INTRO: So we just heard the best small town gossip from Bobby Finger. And I highly recommend everyone read his book — particularly if you’re the sort of person who likes listening to a podcast like this one.
Next, I talk to Lily Fowler. Lily was referred to me by her mom – shoutout to Culture Study reader Angel and she lives in Pittsboro, North Carolina. She’s a senior in high school. And she’ll talk to us about what it’s like to live in a place steeped in family history and how her relationship to her town has evolved.
[AD BREAK]
INTERVIEW - Lily Fowler
[00:00:00] Anne: if you're describing your town to someone, I don't know, like online, who is completely unfamiliar with the region, like how would you describe it?
[00:00:07] Lily: it's a very like, tight-knit community. I've pretty much known all my friends since like kindergarten. We grew up together. We go to the one like Mexican restaurant that we have like every weekend. And, yeah, it's, it's. To like, know everybody and be close, but it's hard to branch out. Like I haven't met like a completely new person in such a long time. so that's one thing. And then also, like, especially when I'm out with like my grandparents, who also grew up here, we just see everybody that we know and I feel like I'm either related to someone or like I'm friends with them, So it's, there's pros and cons. I’d say.
[00:00:49] Anne: Totally. I mean, when I was growing up, some of my friends who had lived in the area for a lot longer, like their families going back, you know, like three, four generations, they had just so many cousins, right? And so sometimes, like, I tell this story to kind of just illustrate what it can be like when you live in a place where your family has lived for a long time, sometimes they would like a boy and they'd have to like ask their mom before they like went out on a date, be like, are we distantly related? You know what I mean?
[00:01:21] Lily: Yes, I, definitely understand that. My mom grew up here. My mom grew up actually, basically in the house that I'm living in now, my grandparents, which is her parents, they are next door neighbors to us, and that's the house that she grew up in and then the house that I live in now is actually my great grandparents' house, which is my mom's grandparents' house. And we rebuilt it as well. but we've always lived here. so we go back generations as well, and definitely that's something I've had to think about too. But like this year especially, in the new class of like freshman at my high school, a few of them are my cousins that I didn't even know and I was like, oh yeah, that's your cousin. And I was like, oh, okay. Good to know.
[00:01:58] Anne: So how do you think it's changed from when your grandparents were first there and then like your mom when she was your age, and then now you?
[00:02:12] Lily: Yeah, it's actually really cool. So my mom went to my high school, so did my dad and my stepdad, and my aunt. So that's been really cool to see. Like my mom will go back and be like, oh, it looks the exact same. Cuz it pretty much does.It’s very old but going back to my grandparents, so like every time I like go somewhere, my grandpa always has a new story for me and like, it's been so fun to just like hear about like at Pittsboro as in the town, but also like my neighborhood as well, specifically because there's like tons of old, like ruined buildings that are still up. And he'll like, tell me stories about how it used to go down and like, go to the store and get like a Coke and like, it was like so cheap. And then we're also, it's like a mill town, so it used to be a working mill in my neighborhood. my grand Parents, my great-grandparents worked there.
[00:03:48] Anne: totally. I also grew up in a milltown, and like so many people, it's like, yeah, this is what we did when we graduated from high school. Or even if you didn't graduate from high school, you just wouldn't have gotten a job there. It seems like a totally different reality sometimes than what we have now. So one thing that happened to me, cuz I also went to school with people from kindergarten all the way through 12th grade, was that like it was really hard to change. Like once people understood you as like this sort of person, or like, if there's like a story that somehow like defined you in some way, whether it was embarrassing or just like something that you were known for, it was just hard to change.
[00:04:25] Lily: Oh, 100%. Yeah, I really wanna like reinvent myself when I go to college. I just want like a fresh, clean slate I guess. Cuz I really have known the majority of these people since elementary school, some of them middle school, and I mean a few of them like freshman year, but even then,when I was in elementary school, I was obsessed with Chick-fil-A. Like, that was my favorite restaurant and, I loved it. And so that's what I was known for. People still think of me when they go to Chick-fil-A and I'm like, okay, that's great. Thank you.
[00:04:55] Anne: Uh, yeah. No, you can't grow, you can't grow out of it. The other thing too, I know in my high school, in a lot of small town high schools, like so much of the school year is really about like… and then we have homecoming! like there, and then we have this dance, and then we have this dance. We had so many dances. and then the sports seasons, just generally. So what was the hardest for you about just having things change so much during the pandemic?
[00:05:18] Lily: It was kind of weird timing, so it was like at the end of my freshman year, so I still did get like homecoming and like football season, so that was nice to experience. It mainly was like during my sophomore year, that was like really messed up. It was just weird. I mean as everyone says, it became like normal after a while,. And then like with friends too, like I couldn't really hang out with people or like, I only really hung out with like the same, like three people and we could only just like be outside and like, be like in our yard and everything cuz we didn't wanna like go inside. so that was kind of hard. It was, I think the social aspect was like the worst of it for me. Which, I mean for, it was for a lot of people too.
[00:06:28] Anne: And then, you know, that summer was when all the BLM protests started popping up, you know, after the murder of George Floyd What happened in your town? like a lot of towns all over the United States has a history of white supremacy of, of racism. So how did that moment change the way that you thought about your town?
[00:06:48] Lily: it was definitely hard. I mean, I feel like a decently young age, I mean like middle school, I feel like I always kind of just had a very like negative thought of my town and just like also the south specifically, but like my town because there was a lot of like conservative, like republican, very like racist people. and I mean also the south generally I feel like has that connotation too. So, and I was just like kind of internalizing that. So in turn, I didn't like where I was growing up and I didn't enjoy it. And all I wanted to do, even like in middle school, I wanted to do, was like, oh, I'm gonna go super far away from college and like, get out and like live in a big city. But honestly, like I, I've started to like love it, which I feel like is very kind of contradictory because a lot of like bad things did happen, specifically in the south too. And like in my town, we we had a Black Lives Matter protest and I think it was like late 2020 or early 2021 maybe. And then we also, like more recently we had a like reproductive rights protest there as well. Both were like really cool to see because it, you know, my town, I, I think of it as very kind of conservative. But you know, I was also talking to my mom earlier and she was kind of saying, we're like a little speck of like blue and like a big sea of red, which is true because our town has definitely become a little bit more, liberal than it used to be. But it was like cool to see us all come together, and like kind of agree on something. Well, not everybody, of course, but like a lot of people.
[00:08:08] Anne: There was a protest in my small town, which is really, really conservative and you know, it wasn't a ton of people, it was like a couple hundred people. But also it takes a lot to stand up in one of those cuz at least in, in my town, like you don't do protests, right? It's not a place where you like, make yourself stick out like that. Like, was there ever any question, did you ever feel like, I don't know if I wanna go to the protest. Like, and what conversations did you have with like your mom or your grandparents about that?
[00:08:48] Lily: Yeah, I definitely thought abou t it. Thankfully, like a lot of my close, like family and friends, like my grandparents and my parents. We're all, we kind of all have very similar like ideas. We're all pretty liberal, so everybody like kind of agreed and like I would go, well for the Black Lives Matter one, I just went with my mom. And then for the reproductive rights one I went with my mom and like my best friends, which was kind of nice. So like, I definitely had all the people like that I really cared about, they all like agreed with me, so I never had to really worry about it. But I definitely think about that as well because there's definitely a population in my town that is very like conservative and judgmental and I mean, we were having our little protests and like across the street it was like all the guys in their confederate flags and their trucks. So, you know, there's definitely a lot of the population that like, did not agree. But like I said, thankfully I had like a, a good like support system that we all kind of agreed on the similar topics. So I never felt like too ostracized in that way.
[00:11:21] Anne: You know, I talk to a lot of parents who are thinking about moving to smaller towns and they're just like so scared that their kids are gonna hate it. So what would you say to those parents?
[00:11:33] Lily: honestly, it could be a valid fear, but I think also like small towns they're nice in some ways I've really grown to love it in a way. I guess my perspective is a little different than someone who would choose to move there. But I do like the community. It's so nice to be able to have like such a tight group of like people, like even if I don't talk to a ton of people, like every day we just all have like this common like thing like we all are the other night, actually, I can give an example, like there was a Christmas tree lighting in town and it was just so cute and like, like all the town came out and it was just so nice to like see everybody. And I saw like tons of people I know and like some of the clubs at school were like having little tables and it was just like so nice to be able to like see everybody like be together and like I feel like that's something you wouldn't get living in a bigger city. So
[00:12:24] Anne: totally.
[00:12:24] Lily: the sense of community is really big.
[00:12:26] Anne: I think that I was nervous when I left to go to college that like my clothes wouldn't be as cool, but I feel like that was a very 1999 thing of me. Like we didn't order clothes online yet, so it's totally different now. I bet you're okay with your clothes, right?
[00:12:42] Lily: Yeah, I, I am, um but you know, I, I guess like one thing I am nervous about for college is kind of like what we've been talking about is like not knowing everyone like that I'm gonna be just put into a new environment. I mean, depending on where I go, because of course if I go to like one of the state schools, I probably will know some people. But I do kind of wanna try to branch out a little bit and go to like an out-of-state school. Nothing too far, but like within the surrounding states. But yeah, it's definitely something I'm nervous about. not being in this community where I know everyone, which is something I never thought that I would say that I'm like scared about that, but like it's, it's exciting and nerve-wracking at the same time.
[00:13:20] Anne: Totally. and actually I'm glad that you're thinking about this because it's something that I didn't think enough about, and then when I got to college, I was like, where are all the people who've known me since I was three? You know, like, so just like anticipating that I think is, is really important. It's important to know that you're gonna miss people and value them now, you know? So right now you are in the midst of your college application, so the process of like writing your personal essays and stuff, like, how has that affected the way that you've thought about your town?
[00:13:49] Lily: it's definitely affected it in a positive way like I've said in the past, like year or so mainly like the last few months I've really started to like appreciate my town more. Well, my personal essay, like the main one that I sent to like all my colleges, was actually about, um, sweet tea and how much I love it. And that kind of ties into like my family and that ties into my town as well because I like, we have so many traditions and everything. but also like, some of them asked about like, your community and, I talked about kind of things we talked about here, like how the protests were and how like the pandemic affected it. But it's definitely overall like made me have such a positive, affection for my town. Especially thinking about going to college and like leaving. That's been really hard cause I've been realizing, oh, I actually will miss it. Like, I actually really do like it. So yeah, that's been one thing to think about.
[00:14:40] Anne: I think it's one of those things where it's like you don't know how much you're gonna miss something until you're faced with the prospect of leaving it.
Lily: Exactly
Anne: Okay. So, as a kind of closing question, this might be a little bit hard, but What's your favorite thing about your town?
[00:14:56] Lily: I mean, I think it's the people. Like, I don't know, like what I would do if I didn't live in the place that I do like having my grandparents next door and like being able to just like, walk down the street and know everyone. Especially like as a kid, I was so outgoing. and when I would go out with my grandpa, because my mom was always at work, so I was always with my grandparents. And when I'd go out with him, like I would talk to everybody that he would talk to and like, I just loved it. so definitely being around my family and people that, know me and like me, I guess so yeah, that would probably be my favorite thing.
[00:15:30] Anne: I love you. Like it's not just that they know me, it’s that they like me,
Lily: Yeah
Anne: That's really good. thank you so much for coming on the show today. This has been a total pleasure.
[00:15:39] Lily: Yeah, thank you. It's an honor. I'm so excited.
OUTRO
Townsizing is produced by Neon Hum Media for HGTV. You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts. If you like the show, we'd love it if you could take a second to leave us a review on Apple podcasts. It helps other folks find the show. I’m Anne Helen Petersen and if you see me online or in real life, be sure to give me that small town wave.