Guthrie, once the capital of Oklahoma, is a town that could easily be the backdrop in a country western. Its downtown area – with its iconic Victorian buildings – is the largest historic preservation district in the nation
Guthrie, once the capital of Oklahoma, is a town that could easily be the backdrop in a country western. Its downtown area – with its iconic Victorian buildings – is the largest historic preservation district in the nation. But Guthrie has faced its ups and downs over the years – as people moved to Oklahoma City for opportunities. In recent years, there’s been a push to restore the town. In this episode, host Anne Helen Petersen talks to Heady Coleman, a community leader and pastor who grew up in Guthrie and moved back later in life. Heady is a local celebrity in town – he hosts the Guthrie America podcast, which has let the town grow closer and get to know each other, and he’s known to surprise friends and business owners with red balloons. Heady will tell us the role that civic life has played for him and why community-building is vital to small towns.
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Find episode transcripts here: https://townsizing.simplecast.com/episodes/guthrie-america-with-heady-coleman
HEADY COLEMAN PODCAST EPISODE: Entrepreneur Maggie Clark [0:00-0:06]
Hello Hello Hello! Ladies and Gentlemen thanks for hitting that play button welcome to an episode of the Heady Coleman Podcast
Fade under track
EPISODE: Entrepreneur Maggie Clark [0:00-0:06]
That's our guest, Heady Coleman. You probably don't know him — but for those who live in Guthrie, America -- and yes that's how he refers to the town – he is a local celebrity.
Heady is extremely funny. He is a true joy to talk to. But the main thing to know about him is just how much he loves Guthrie — enough that he’s started his own podcast about the everyday lives of Guthrie residents.
HEADY COLEMAN PODCAST EPISODE: Entrepreneur Maggie Clark [0:33-0:42]
We got a fabulous lady in the building. Fabulous. I’ve been knowing this lady for a long long time long time.
THEME STEMS THROUGHOUT
Driving down the main drag of Guthrie can feel like you’re on a movie set: it’s filled with gorgeous old Victorian buildings, the sort you might not expect in a town of just around ten thousand people in the middle of Oklahoma.
Guthrie was one of those towns that popped up right next to the railroad in the 19th century — and was important enough to the state’s economy that it was declared the state’s capital in 1907. The rights to the capital were later stolen and moved to Oklahoma City, something that also happened to my hometown in Idaho. We’ll get to that later in the episode.
SHOW ID
This is Townsizing, a podcast from HGTV all about small town living. And I’m your host, Anne Helen Petersen.
EP INTRO
Heady loves Guthrie for its walkable downtown, the 2000-plus original buildings, the fact that the town has the largest preservation district in the country — but what he really loves is what’s going on inside those buildings, all the new businesses you might not expect, the vibrancy you can feel.
Guthrie has been through several cycles of boom and bust — and right now, they’re trying to figure out how to balance the influx of tourists and new residents with the difficulty of getting people to live and work in town, especially since Oklahoma City is just a half an hour down the road.
That’s a question that Heady thinks about a lot — in his podcast, as the former head of the Guthrie Chamber of Commerce, and just as the guy on the street that people come to with questions about what’s going on in town. He grew up in Guthrie, moved away from Guthrie, and has come home to raise his kids in Guthrie — and thinks they’re slowly figuring out what makes Guthrie so great. Today, I’m going to talk with Heady about all of that — and what it means to try and help make your town a destination while still preserving all that makes it great.
FULL THEME IN
INTERVIEW
[00:00:00] Anne: So. someone who isn't familiar with Guthrie, can you tell us about it? It has a really interesting history.
FULL THEME OUT UNDER ANNE
[00:00:05] Heady: Yeah. So, we are the first capital of Oklahoma. When you start thinking about the land run and people, establishing their spots, Guthrie was decided to be the capital at that time, and at some point, they transitioned it to Oklahoma City, of course. But we like to say that it was stolen. But another thing about, Guthrie America – I call it Guthrie America, but Guthrie, Oklahoma – is that hasn't grown too much since when it first started, right? So it was 10,000 people then, and it's still roughly around that same size.
[00:00:38] Anne: Well, and you know, the thing that people maybe don't understand is like 10,000 people in the middle of America. That was a lot of people at the time, right? Like that was a big city. And two things. First of all, I also grew up in what was rightfully the first capital of Idaho, which was also stolen, like in the middle of the night, like someone stole the papers. Right. Which is kind of what happened in Guthrie, same sort of thing that people could just like steal the papers and say, Okay, no, this other town is the capital now
[00:01:09] Heady: So this whole time I'm thinking that that story was unique to us. But they stole you all's papers too. Oh my goodness.
[00:01:16] Anne: yes.
[00:01:17] Heady: So was that just like the common story for all small towns that started out as the capital is? Like they took our papers. They stole our papers and sold. Yeah, I guess it's a common thing. I'm no longer feeling like we're the unique.
[00:01:29] Anne: Well, and it also, you know, where I grew up, Lewiston is similar to Guthrie in that it was like a place, where a lot of transit came through. Like that's the reason why it was populous, is because it was kind of this place where people went through all the time and then other people in the state were like, nah, we want it to be in this other place, so we're just gonna declare this other place as the capital.
Heady: Yeah
Anne: [00:02:17] So, you know, I love that you called it Guthrie usa. There's another town that I love called Butte, and it's in Montana and people say like Butte America, same sort of thing.
Heady: Yeah
Anne: And similar to Guthrie, it was a huge mining town. Like it was the, like New York City of the West. There was so much wealth in this city and. So much beautiful architecture, but it really has gone through all of these periods of boom and bust. And can you feel that in, in Guthrie? Like how have you seen that over the course of your lifetime, even?
[00:02:49] Heady: Yeah, no, I, I definitely have seen it to where it kind of had its moments. and then coming back down. I mean, for example, when I was growing up, you had JCPenneys[sic], you had St. Anthony's, you had what we would call the Victor Mall, where we felt like there was enough energy, enough people shopping locally that we could create what we call the mall. We called the Victor Mall. That was in the historic building and everything. And then at some point you start seeing all of these things leave.
[00:03:15] Anne: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:16] Heady: You then have to drive to the city to get all of your stuff or whatever. And now we're at a place to where those kind of stores and things of that nature, Walmart and all those things are starting to come here and we're starting to grow. People are starting to build neighborhoods here. And so now we're kind of seeing this resurgent [sic] of our community was gonna happen at some point for sure. Just because we're so close to Oklahoma City and Edmond, which are the two next biggest cities. And as they grow, it just kind of grows into us.
Anne: Yeah
Heady: and because of that, I think we're gonna continue to see some of that. That growth it as far as retail opportunities, schools, how it impacts our schools and things like that. But I'm hoping because I moved here because it was a smaller community, Right? I'm hoping that it's still gonna have the downtown, the small town, old town, and then you kind of have the outskirts. and I don't mind that at all, cuz that'll help. That will help be invest in our schools and
[00:05:45] Anne: So, you left, to go to an HBCU, right?
[00:05:48] Heady: I did, I went to, uh, Bethune-Cookman in Daytona Beach,
Anne: Oh cool.
Heady: in 1992.
[00:05:56] Anne: So, How white is Guthrie and how would it feel to go from like a place that felt pretty white to an HBCU?
[00:06:07] Heady: Yeah, no, I feel like even though I grew up in the town, there was predominantly white, culturally, my family was still very African American or Black, you know, culturally we just did things that were Black people did. And so I never would've been one of those people, like if you would've saw me outside of Guthrie, you'd have been like, ah, he probably grew up in an all white community. You know, so I never, we still somehow maintained culturally and so when I went to Bethune-Cookman, there was nothing too wild. Now here's the thing though, the thing about Florida is, is pretty country where they were saying that we were country. I'm like, No, I think we might be a little bit more city than Florida during that time, like I was like, Y'all doing some stuff that I feel like is real country. But it was a great experience in the sense of like everything was. Like, like you said, culturally it was all Black culture. And so that was definitely different, but it wasn't something that it was, that made me feel culture shock. And plus we have a HBCU that's like 10 minutes away from here. It's called Langston University. and so we have that.
[00:07:11] Anne: Yeah. did You ever go mudding as a kid? like that was the, like the big country thing for us was to go like –
[00:07:17] Heady: Now. And so that, and I think that's the thing, like we were very culturally black. You just didn't find very black kids out mudding and so there –
[00:07:25] Anne: You mean, you weren’t like Darius Rucker, just like out there singing country music?
[00:07:31] Heady: No, no. We did do, we did a… Mudding is just a kid thing. Yeah. We slid in mud, got wet. Race sticks. So when the water was going down,
Anne: Oh yeah.
Heady: I guess at this time there's no real draining system. So you put the, the sticks and stuff and see which one raced the, I don't know if they did that in big cities, but when it rained, we were out there in the rain and we were racing sticks
[00:07:51] Anne: Well, and you know, Oklahoma is similar in some way. I used to live in Texas and like when it rains, it rains hard and there's not. You know, and it doesn't absorb into the water the ground really fast. So you have these huge streams of water. So yeah, you race the sticks to see it's good entertainment. It lasts for a long time.
[00:08:10] Heady: yes, Most people don't understand that. But yeah, that's the kind of stuff we did. And like playing football in the streets, Like you don't see kids playing football in the streets. Like there was a lot of things that I think now when I got older, I was like, Oh, we were probably doing that because we didn't have any other options.
[00:08:24] Anne: Right, Right. There's no phones. We at least had like four channels, you know?
[00:08:28] Heady: Yeah. And it was long distance to call anywhere outta Guthrie. So you didn't do a lot of connecting with people outside of your town.
[00:08:34] Anne: yeah. Totally, totally. So you moved, you moved back to Oklahoma City and you started a family there right after college?
[00:09:12] Heady: I got married in 2003, so I lived in Florida for a little bit. I lived in Columbia, Tennessee for a little bit. And then I moved back to Oklahoma City. Well, I was kind of a nomad. I was just a little bit of wherever I could find a couch. I, I did a period of time like that. But, around 2007, we moved back to Guthrie, ‘cause my wife is also from Guthrie.
[00:09:36] Anne: Yeah, Okay. so, what prompted, like what was the thing that made you think like, we ought to go back home?
[00:09:41] Heady: there was this day my wife was driving down the, the streets. Now we're in Oklahoma City an, the area that we were living in was not the best area. So she's driving down the street and she sees our son, my oldest son running down the street, and I think he was like in first or second grade, I think he may have been in second or third, but he's running down the street. And my wife was like, and she's with her mom, and she's like, is that our son? Is that Kenneth? And they pull up on him, and it's Kenneth running down the street. And so she gets him, puts him in a car, goes back to the school, and then she asks the school to go get Kenneth out of class so she can check him out. They go to look for Kenneth, find out that Kenneth's not in the classroom. And so now they're trying to figure this thing out. Whereas yet, now my wife's not telling them that he's in the car. And so let, she let them be frantic for a little while and then at some point she tells them, and then, when she gets home, we talk about it. And I was like, You know what? Why don't we go ahead and move back to a smaller community. And so we looked at a couple of different ones that were around Oklahoma City, the metro area, and then we decided why not just come back home?
Anne: Can you talk just a little bit more about why you wanted to leave Oklahoma City for Guthrie? Like, were you worried about your son's safety when you saw him running in the street, or just the fact that like the school didn't even know that he was missing? Like what, what other things were going through your head then?
Heady: I think things that were going through my head when I saw my son running down the street, was I don't want my son running down the, the street on busy roads in a big city.
Anne: Right
Heady: And we not know about it because one, he could get hit. Two, somebody could snatch him up. Uh, these kind of things and so thinking about moving to a smaller town was like typically every… You do have this… Everybody knows each other. And if my son's running down the street, you gonna get a phone call? Hey, Heady I think I just saw your son running down the street. Yeah. Or he's gonna get home. Right? Like kids are walking all over the place here in this town because they leave school, walk home or whatever the case may be. And so you, you have an experience like that. You're just like, man, how do I get my family into a safe place. And I feel like you get a little bit more natural community when you live in a smaller town. And I wanted us to be in a place to where we really our approach in life is a village is raising our kids. It's not just us. And Guthrie gave us the opportunity to do that. Plus, with the history we looked at other small towns, but with our history of living here, growing up here, there was still a sense of people knowing who we were. Uh, but then there was still new people who didn't know who I was at all, you know? And so I, so my real name is Gregory Coleman.
Anne: Yeah.
Heady: And so it, the funny story is like, uh, when I came back by this time, people were calling me heady as far as like my work and, and all the different things that we were able to do in the city. Uh, and so one day somebody calls my office and they was like, Hey, I just met Heady. I met your twin brother. And I was like, Oh, I'm, I'm, I'm Heady. You know, they had heard about this Heady guy moving into these, you know, had a connection to Greg, and I was like, No, I'm Heady. And Greg, I'm both
Anne: (Laughs) Oh, that is so. good. That is really good yeah, [--] So was it more affordable to go back home? at that point? This is around 2007, so, you know, financial crisis, all that stuff happening. Yeah.
[00:10:57] Heady: it was definitely, uh, a more affordable place. And then, we just had family here, so.
[00:11:03] Anne: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Heady: Yep. It was, it was more for afford–. I don't think it was that big of a leap for us because again, what we were living at was kind of not the best in Oklahoma City. And so we were living in the places that were affordable anyway.[00:11:24]
[00:12:20] Anne: What did your kids think? How old were they when they moved?
[00:12:23] Heady: My oldest son was, uh, I think he was 11 at the time. And so, it was not that big of a deal for him and my other two kids were so young.
[00:12:31] Anne: Yeah.
[00:12:31] Heady: My middle was born in 2005 and then the year that we had my daughter was the year we moved back.
[00:12:37] Anne: I mean, that makes total sense. You have like a young, a two year old and an infant. You're like, Okay, all right. Give me some help.
[00:12:44] Heady: Yeah. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. So we, we jetted back, but they, they love it. You know, the really cool thing is I really try to play a part in my community to where we help young people recognize the opportunities of living or stand in the smaller communities. And so one of the, great things that, that just recently happened, my My middle son was sitting on the couch and he's like, Dad, you know what I'm starting to get –... I think we had just got back from Atlanta or somewhere, and he's like, You know what? I think I'm gonna stay, I'm gonna stay in a smaller town. I think I may stay in Guthrie because I started to get why we live here and understand it. And I was like, Yeah. Yeah. So that was really awesome to to hear him say that.
[00:13:27] Anne: What do you think he was understanding? Like what was the realization there?
[00:13:37] Heady: I think the busyness. I think he got a sense of like, it's so much calmer here. And I think he appreciated that because when you come from this big city, this robust city traffic, everybody's going everywhere. Thousands of people walking the streets whenever we went down, and then he came home and sitting on the couch and it’s quiet.
[00:13:58] Anne: Yeah.
[00:13:59] Heady: you know, and he could walk outside and walk to the park with his friends and, and it didn't feel like a rush. I think for him it was like, you know what? I like this. And that made me proud in that moment, cuz that's the reason I love being here. I love being able to walk to the office and walk to the store, walk to the coffee shop.
[00:14:20] Anne: Well, if we can go back in time a little bit like when you first moved there, what did you see as like a way that you could be involved in the community… in a way that you couldn't have been when you were, you know, living there before as a teen?
[00:14:33] Heady: I just didn't understand city government when I was a teen.
I didn't even, I didn't know what a, I didn't know what a superintendent was. I didn't know what a mayor was. I didn't know what a chamber of commerce was, none of this stuff. And whenever I got back together and began to really dig in, like in the education system, like understanding like we hadn't passed a school bond issue in a while. Understanding the importance and making, making it a priority to shop local. Even more so. You know, you always want people to shop local regardless of where you're at, but it's even that much more important for smaller communities and then also not just at churches. getting people to understand why it's important to send their kids to the local schools versus driving because now it's, it's close …it feels… even that proximity of Edmund and Oklahoma City, so taking their kids to private schools out of there. I end up becoming the CEO of the Chamber of Commerce. And out of that is where I started to Choose Guthrie campaign. And then we also had what we call community wins. All of these, going back to the opportunity that I see to how can we foster community, How can we, how can we make our town a priority? Because in small towns – we love it, but at the same time, if we, if we don't invest in it, it’s gonna die.
[00:15:56] Anne: Totally. Totally. And I even see this with stores, right? So sometimes, like on our island, there's a little, it's like a general store kind of, and everything's more expensive there because it has to be transported across the ferry because you know, they have to be able to pay the people who work there, all that sort of thing. But if you don't buy stuff there, it's gonna go away. And then, that day when you're outta butter, or half and half for your coffee, or you need a screwdriver cause you're trying to do a project, there's not gonna be a place for you to go at all and you're gonna have to leave. Then you're gonna have to do this whole trip to try to find it. So sometimes it's worth paying more money or, or doing that extra work to have that thing in the community. And so it's a hard sell sometimes. Like you gotta keep reminding people like, This is why we do this.
[00:16:46] Heady: Yeah, no, for sure. And the more you can tell that story, it's something that you just can't do once or twice. Like, you just gotta figure out how you keep it in front of people. ‘Cause there's somebody who hadn't heard you know, when you talking about 12 to 15,000 people and then you're the county seat. So we're the county seat as well. So people drive into Guthrie to do a lot of their shopping and so you just wanna keep telling that story as, as often as you can and, and telling those stories of the people, uh, so we can continue to grow and be able to keep jobs.
[00:17:14] Anne: Who's one of the most interesting people in Guthrie? Do you think? Besides you?
[00:17:19] Heady: Oh my goodness. There's so many interesting people. There's Justin Fortney. Justin is a musician. He plays the guitar, but he rides a bike everywhere. But he's just like this cool hipster that everybody knows from him riding his bike everywhere and, and so much so he eventually became the tourism director, uh, for, for Guthrie because he was just one having a music background. You can always draw a crowd for music, but just very likable guy. He's super unique. Now, one of the stories, when I go speak places, one of the stories that I tell is about long hair. Long hair was homeless. He came to Guthrie through on a bicycle and he became a handyman. And out of that, now. If you try to call him for business, he's gonna be like six or seven months out because he's grown his business. He's a great guy and he's super unique. Then there's Byron Berline, rest in peace. But, he was a world class fiddler and so, we would do a bluegrass festival was actually about to come up and he started that Bluegrass Festival, but he's super unique cat.
[00:18:48] Anne: Well, the story of long hair reminds me of the fact that like sometimes you only have one person in a town who can do something, and so that person is really in demand. And something like a handyman, like you're like, Okay, everyone needs a handyman. We are like two good handyman in town. What are we gonna do?
Heady: Yeah
AD BREAK CUE
Anne: Ok, coming up Heady takes us to one of his favorite places in town.
MIDROLL BREAK
AD BREAK CUE
HEADY HOBOKEN COFFEE SHOP AMBI
Are y'all coming in to get a little coffee? We're leaving. Oh, y'all leaving? Y'all already been here.
No cookies! What in the world? We got one just for you. No, no. The chocolate chip. There's no chocolate chip cookies. Oh, chocolate chip. No.
How are you liking working here? It's awesome. Is it? Yeah. You love all the traffic and meeting all the new people? Oh, yeah.
All right. Beautiful people. Enjoy yourselves, all Uhhuh. Have a good one. Nice meeting you too. Yes
Fade out
[00:19:57] Anne: So you just took us to Hoboken Coffee. It's kind of like the hipster coffee shop in town, right? how would you describe it to, to people?
[00:20:05] Heady: You know, the story of the owners is super cool. They, were living in Oregon and rode bikes all the way back from Oregon, bicycles all the way back from Oregon to Guthrie. And when they got back, I guess it was Mallory, the wife's, desire to open a coffee shop, I think Trey, the husband as well. And for some reason, I can't remember how they landed on the name Hoboken, but Hoboken's a very quaint coffee shop just right off a street called Division and Division is one of the main streets coming into Guthrie and Mallory's grandfather owned this old tire shop that nobody had been using and it was just nasty. It was a tire shop, very nasty place. But she told her grandfather that one day she was gonna start this coffee shop. And, in that particular space. And so I think her grandfather, she gave her grandfather a game plan and she started cleaning it out just little by little. Then at some point they opened the coffee shop. But when you walk in, it is not very big. It just has this great hometown feeling that everybody that comes there just loves it because of the, the feel of it. So now they bake goods. They roast the coffee there, so you have the smell of the roasted coffee, the fresh coffee, and they play vinyls. So when you go in, they have a record player up there and they change it in and out the vinyls. So that gives you a little bit of feel. the tables are, made here locally and they're made out thick concrete, and they're gray, like a grayish color, but they're just so beautiful. Very, very home, small town feel to it, but it's just a great spot and everybody's in there, all the old and young people are hanging out there.
[00:21:55] Anne: So It's like kind of the, It's an example of this new wave of development, like New Guthrie. Were there people when it first opened, who were like, I don't need fancy coffee. I will get my cup of coffee for 50 cents. Thank you very much. Folgers. Crystals in the cup. Like was there pushback at all?
[00:22:14] Heady: you definitely got people saying, you know, this coffee's expensive. But, you know, I think, I think one of the things that, Trey and Mallory were understanding was like, this is what good coffee cost you, you know, when it's roasted right here in house. And then also I think people were willing to pay because of the experience. There's no other place like it in Guthrie. And at that time, really in the metro, Hoboken was the first within Oklahoma City/Edmund. I mean, cuz you're talking like 10 years or so ago. So it was one of the first local coffee shops that was roasting coffee and, and you had all sorts of people coming down from other places wanting to learn from Trey and Mallory on how to roast coffee, how they did their shop and things like that.
[00:23:00] Anne: Well, and in a place like that, especially one that attracts foot traffic – can really be an anchor for an area where people haven't really spent a lot of time walking to before. Like it's a really, really important cornerstone, I think, of a thriving downtown.
[00:23:15] Heady: Yeah, no, it, it definitely is. And whenever somebody says, when I come to Guthrie, what should I do? And so I say, You go to Hoboken for coffee, you go to Rick's for chocolate, and you go to Missy's for bakery, for their donuts. It's a, a cool donut shop called Missy’s that people from all over the place come to. And so that is kinda like the date. And then I say you can stay at, the Dominion House, which is a small boutique hotel that's super fancy. That used to be an old children's home. And for the longest it was empty and people thought it was haunted. Every Halloween the news was here talking about the old children's home being haunted. And so some guy ended up buying it, renovating it, and it became the Dominion House. And it's like one of the fanciest things in Guthrie.
[00:24:01] Anne: I've been to small towns where there's just a little bit of concern that like as things get fancier and as people making more money, From out of town come in and really start catering to tourists that there's just not gonna be people catering to the people who've lived there for a really long time. How do you balance that?
[00:24:22] Heady: the way that I always tell people is like, I think our downtown area will stay what it is. For example, we have a Starbucks right off the highway coming in to Guthrie, and so people were concerned about that, but I'm like, that's the highway, so if you go hang out at Starbucks you don't see local people really coming in and out of that place. And so I think what's gonna happen is we continue to keep our old town and then the new is gonna continue to be the surrounding areas.
[00:25:11] Anne: Totally, Totally. I can remember when Starbucks first came to the town where I went to college and there was, everyone was just like, This is the end. This was like the early 2000s. But yes, like this is the end. Our town is over and you know, the Starbucks came in, it went in right next to the, the old coffee shop that had been there forever and both of them stayed open. You know, sometimes you can have two of something and it's not necessarily a bad thing.
[00:25:41] Heady: We have three right now, Three coffee shops. We have Rick's. Cause Rick's not only does chocolate, but there's something unique about each one. And I think the thing that we have to always be great at is telling the story of each one.
[00:26:04] Anne: Yeah. What are the challenges that Guthrie is grappling with right now?
[00:26:08] Heady: Oh my goodness. Keeping workers, you know, especially municipality workers like police and firemen, you know, those are big challenges for small towns because those people typically come here and get trained and then they go to the bigger jobs. If Oklahoma City can pay more, if Edmond can pay more. you gotta wrestle with those city workers. Those kind of things. And again, can small towns pay 15 and $20 a hour to their employees? So if you can't, now you go to Oklahoma City to work because it's only really 30 minutes or even 20 minutes to get to Edmond and I can go pay 15 to $20 a hour versus 10 or are nine here in Guthrie. And the prices of Guthrie continue to rise as well, because the prices of Oklahoma City rise. So you just have that, that going up. But, you know, one of the things I desire is a tech company, so I, I wanna see a tech company grow in this community because now you don't have to worry about people shopping there or, or doing those things, you know? So, so on lunch, they can go eat at dinner and lunch and things of that nature cuz they're getting a good wage and, and, can, can support those kind of things
[00:27:12] Anne: Right, Right.
[00:27:13] Heady: We need Google or
[00:27:14] Anne: Just even a small one.
[00:28:13] Anne: so you do a lot of other things besides, you know, your, your podcast and running your YouTube channel and doing the Chamber of Commerce. You also oversee a church, you mentor kids, you ran for state senate…
[00:28:28] Heady: Yep.
[00:28:28] Anne: Has there been a moment that makes it all feel worth it for you? Like a moment where you're like, everything is coming together.
[00:28:35] Heady: I always feel like it is all worth doing just because, you at the donut shop and somebody says, Hey, I listened to your podcast and it was cool to learn about Zante. So on Fridays, I'll just show up at random places with red balloons. And the reason I do that is because I want people to know that they're seen and I wanna celebrate. It's kind of like celebrating them. Because of those kind of things, people call me to come and speak at different places. And so, for example , I want to speak at Deer Creek, which is a school, middle school here to the teachers and the staff. And then on Twitter just the other day, I see that they're delivering red balloons, like the principals delivering blue balloons because their colors is blue. Blue balloons to the different teachers every Friday, you know? And so because of that, I think people see that and they can have a sense of pride that somebody from their community’s having that kind of impact, not just locally, but also outside of, Guthrie America.
[00:29:36] Anne: You know, I feel like there's often this stereotype of a small town and people who live in a small town, and either it's like, kind of saccharine, like too sweet, you know, like white picket fences, everything's perfect, like that sort of thing. Or it's really negative. It's like these people are all backwards, like they are really bigoted. No one has ever been anywhere. And also I think oftentimes really, really white, right? And I think that there's so many small towns in America that are not white and are not bigoted, and are not sweet, and they're a mix of a lot of things. And breaking that stereotype is really hard, but really important.
[00:30:17] Heady: Yeah, no, for sure. And what I always say to people, especially being African American and, and you being a minority, is like, hey, love has no skin color and it breaks all sorts of barriers. And if you get out there and just serve people and love 'em well, you know, those types of things, stereotypes of things come to in the end. But typically we have both where Guthrie's this evil town that needs help or this great town that I wanna move to and I just love coming down there. So you get a little bit of both and I just try to point people back to – Hey, everywhere you live, there's people and people all have their different challenges, and so it's just in smaller towns, the word probably gets around quicker, but we all have our stuff.
[00:31:00] Anne: Yeah. And you know what? I feel like you are a celebrity in your town. Does it feel like you're a celebrity? Like everyone knows who you are.
[00:31:07] Heady: Yeah. So that's what people would say. Everyone knows me, but I'm like, 15,000 people and promise you, everybody does not know me. You know, I learned that by people coming to visit our church , and they'd be like, Oh, you know, they don't know who I am. I was a citizen of the year. So, I think quite a few people know me in the sense of like selecting me to do that, which means they seen the work that I do.
[00:31:30] Anne: So, what do you hope for Guthrie in five years? Like what do you want to see happening in town? Like what would make you really happy?
[00:31:38] Heady: You know, I think what really makes me happy, and this is something that came from, uh, our superintendent, he said that there was a time when people would build out these neighborhoods and they wouldn't put on their Guthrie public schools because at that time, Guthrie public schools was not a place that people wanted to move to or send their kids to school there, so it was best just to leave that off. But towns where people are excited about it, they put that particular school district's name on the big sign as they're building out the community. And I think for me, like the more people are highlighting our community about being a place that they wanna live and come to, makes me excited. And I think, as we continue to figure out how to tell more stories and how to continue to give people the opportunity to create cool things like Hoboken Coffee Shop or, or Rick's or Missy’s or Boutique 2 0 6, or, you know, all these different small town types of stores that we have here and, these entrepreneurs have built, the more we can do that, I, I'm, I'm all in over the next five years and I think we just gotta keep doing what we're doing.
[00:32:45] Anne: Awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time with us today.
[00:32:48] Heady: Yeah, no. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this. This is amazing.
OUTRO
In our next episode we’re heading to Tennessee. Our guests moved from New York to a truly tiny town to start a new life on a farm. Their neighbors thought they wouldn’t last six months — but they’ve surprised pretty much everyone.
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Townsizing is produced by Neon Hum Media for HGTV. You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts. And we'd love if you could take a second to leave us a five-star review on Apple podcasts.