Many city dwellers find themselves daydreaming about moving to a small town. Maybe it’s a chance to slow down, own property or just have a porch to sip tea on
Many city dwellers find themselves daydreaming about moving to a small town. Maybe it’s a chance to slow down, own property or just have a porch to sip tea on. The pandemic and remote work accelerated these plans for a lot of Americans. In this episode, we’ll talk to listeners considering making the jump. First, we have Laura and Anders Wennstrom. They have a great community in Minneapolis but Anders, an avid gardener and grouch when it comes to noise, has always dreamt of a place where he can truly spread out. Laura thinks there’s benefits to city life, especially when it comes to their kids growing up in a diverse community. Then we hear from Noelle Murrain, a 45-year-old Black woman, who has lived in LA and NYC but is contemplating making the move to a small Connecticut town. But first, there’s a lot of questions she has to ask herself. And we’re along for the ride.
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Find episode transcripts here: https://townsizing.simplecast.com/episodes/moving-to-a-small-town-the-pros-and-cons
My partner Charlie and I didn’t really decide to move to a small town so much as found ourselves here and, after several months, couldn’t imagine ourselves being anywhere else.
Sometimes that’s how it works. You think you’re going somewhere to visit or just try it out for a few weeks or months, like we did in the middle of the pandemic, and then you just end up….staying.
A lot of people made similar decisions during the pandemic, and some of them have found themselves wildly happy — while others find themselves missing the city more than they anticipated.
This is Townsizing, a podcast from HGTV all about small town living. And I’m your host, Anne Helen Petersen.
Now, I wasn’t foreign to living in a small town but I still had certain fantasies about what living on the island would be like…that didn’t work out quite like I expected. Like I love the ferry. I love the romance of the ferry. I love even the fact that the ferry makes you wait for things and plan things.
What I don’t love is when you make an appointment 3 months in advance for a massage and you just look forward to it so much and then you get in line for the ferry and it’s a huge windstorm and the ferry goes out and you have to scrap all of your plans. That sucks.
But that’s just part of the risk, right? How do we balance our fantasy – all the fun things of small-town living – with the reality?
Like as a single person, you have the freedom to move wherever and whenever you want — like to a small town! But then when you get to that place, you find yourself by yourself, and have to build community on your own, and find housing on your own, and decide whether you’re going to even try dating.
And if you have a family, you have to think about proximity to school — like, here on the island, there’s an adorable elementary school, but for middle school and high school, the kids take the ferry to the mainland every day — and what are you going to do if you meet all the moms in town, and none of them want to be friends with you? The possibility of small town mean girl stuff is very real and it’s something you have to think about.
Plus, if you’re a person of color, you also have to think about whether you’re going to be the only person of color no matter where you go in town — and, I mean this very seriously, you have to think about whether or not there’s someone in town who can even do your hair. All of this stuff really matters.
Today, we’re going to hear two stories from people grappling with these very questions.
First, we have Laura and Anders Wennstrom — a white 30-something couple from Minneapolis, Minnesota, who have two daughters, age 3 and 6. They’ve been wrestling with the idea of moving to a small town for basically their entire marriage.
WENNSTROM INTV
[00:00:00] Anne: So what can you tell me? You know, I did this call out on my newsletter where I was like, if, You were thinking about maybe moving to a small town reach out to me and I, there were hundreds of people who reached out, but why did you reach out? like, is this a conversation that is continually happening in your house? Okay.
[00:00:16] Laura: I would say are we gonna move to a small town if and when has been sort of the central source of conflict in our entire relationship? and has come to a point where we talk about it constantly. It's like, do you wanna have our fight? It feels like it's that conversation.
Anders: That's the fight. Oh.
Laura: I mean, sometimes we fight about other things, but like, it seems like, it's the the conversation that we're like talk in circles around and have never come to a mutual understanding.
[00:00:48] Anne: Yeah. You said, help me solve this 13 plus year marital dilemma.
[00:00:52] Laura: Yeah.
[00:00:55] Anders: We started out in a small town right after we were married. Yeah.
Anne: Oh really
Anders: Yeah. Laura had an art residency in Jamestown, North Dakota.
[00:01:12] Laura: well, so we met in Chicago when we were in college. And I was very enchanted with living in Chicago and felt like this is my place. Like I have to live in a city. And it was like very interested in, racial reconciliation and like social justice work. And it just was like, it has to happen in the city. Meanwhile, Anders was a little bit more stressed by city life. Um, You don't like it.
[00:01:39] Anne: Anders, what's your least favorite part about city life? Is it traffic?
[00:01:43] Anders: No, it's noise. I have a theory about people's ages and their personalities. There's a time in your life where I call it your golden age, where your personality aligns with how old you are. And let's just say that mine is yet to come. so I get a little crotchety about noise.
[00:02:10] Anne: if, like you say, we all have our like spirit ages, I too am also probably a 75 year old man at heart., I'm like my granddad like just 100% sitting in the backyard complaining about like this small amount of noise. What's the ideal if you were to move to a small town? Like what would the size be that you're thinking about?
[00:03:04] Laura: that we would probably be more compelled by a property, like a piece of land than we are interested in like a specific town. so I think like dream property if we were on House Hunters, we would say probably an hour and a half from Minneapolis-St. Paul, 100 miles, 20 to 40 acres. Anders wants to be adjacent to some kind of body of water, river, stream, lake.
[00:03:42] Anne: have you guys like spent time on Zillow?
[00:03:44] Laura: Yeah. Anna's pretty much twice a week is, you know, before I'm even outta bed, he's like had a couple cups of coffee and he's like, Laura, I found a place. I found the perfect place. And so there's a constant stream of dream homes.
[00:03:57] Anders: There are some interesting places, sometimes in rural areas, they're a little bit more DIY. You know, there's no one else out here to do the work, so I'm gonna have to figure it out. like the city has a lot of permits, which are good, but things are tend to go a certain way, and unless you have a lot of money, you can't make something unique.
[00:04:28] Laura: Some kind of interesting house l, it can be a fixer upper, not on a main road. I mean, do you move because you want some acres or , do you move because you want a specific town and I think we want the acres more than the town
[00:04:56] Anne: So when you think of the pros, both of you, what are the pros that like absolutely come to mind? Like the three big things for each of you that you're like, This would be amazing if we found that property.
[00:05:45] Anders: for me it's like I'm a big gardener. I've pretty much maxed out most of the space on my lot. Um, I got stuff on the Boulevard. I'm thinking about putting things in the alley now cuz I just don't . Have any more space to grow things. I don't really think we need a bigger house. Like I'm not out for more square footage necessarily, cuz the suburbs have that if we really want that. And then, light pollution, um, being able to do whatever you want without people, like I mean, I'm, you know, a little bit of a libertarian ideal to be like just ma mind your own damn business.
[00:06:32] Anne: but also like I, in the morning when I let the dogs out, like I'm not usually fully dressed and no one can see me. Right? Like I just like step out of the porch with no pants on. It's fine.
[00:06:43] Anders: Sometimes you see your neighbors naked or you're like, Whoa, I didn't wanna see that .because of the way the economies are in a small town versus a, a, city, there's a little bit more ways to expand. Small businesses are trying stuff out without the same amount of risk. Especially for Laura, there's been talk about opening a thrift store, or maybe having a smaller farm or doing different things that you can't do when you're confined by how expensive things are or how competitive the market is.
[00:07:27] Anne: Yeah, that's such a good point. And you know, oftentimes too, in those smaller towns, there's gorgeous storefronts that –
[00:07:34] Anders: Yeah.
[00:07:35] Anne: people are,
Anders: sitting empty
Anne: Yeah, just sitting empty. Right. And that can be transformed. Laura, what about you? What are the pros that you think about?
[00:07:41] Laura: I think about space. like Art making space
[00:07:47] Anders: Space for crap.
[00:07:49] Laura: I make a lot of sculptures and I'm a collector of stuff. I just would like more space to spread out and not have to pay thousands of dollars a month for studio rent. Um, and we've talked a little bit about maybe having an artist residency or kind of retreat space or doing an Airbnb thing.
[00:08:36] Anne: Okay, so about cons now?
[00:08:38] Laura: So for me, [laughs] I think, okay, so the first thing too is that I have never lived in a small town. I have a lot of bias, so I'm willing to admit that, that I, I don't know. And so there's, there is a little bit of fear, I think that I worry about would you find a community that you're going to have common ideals with, that you'll fit in with? Because if there's only other, you know, um, you know, one other person your age in that town and you see the world, you know, like you don't like each other, then yeah. What do you do? to me it's really important, right now that our kids are in a city and they're going to a school that is very diverse and they are learning about languages and culture and gender and all of these things that I think are good for kids to learn about. And, I know that that doesn't happen in every community. So those are, those are kind of my main, the homogeneity of a small town and the fitting in.
[00:09:56] Anne: Yeah. Anders, What about you for negatives?
[00:11:02] Anders: No, I, I think I echo some of the stuff that Laura is concerned about humans we're kind of lazy and so we don't really necessarily learn stuff unless we're forced to. .
[00:11:13] Anne: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:14] Anders: like right now my commute is pretty short. Like I ride my bike to work and I like it a lot. I don't really want to drive somewhere every day. You know, some people in the country, they drive forever to get to work.
Anne: Yeah.
Anders: I don't, like if I work from home in the country, that's cool. Like I can just sit on a spreadsheet or something. So, that, that would kind of annoy me. So I'd, I'd have to make it so like I, I wouldn't have to leave ever.
[00:12:56] Anne: Yeah, I mean if you want to, you could come live on an island that would help with that problem. Laura, I know that you mentioned like you're a little bit anxious that like if you move to a smaller place Anders would like have this amazing garden and like be out there all the time. And then you would be tasked with doing a little bit more of the like the mental load of figuring out, okay, well we gotta go into town and we gotta stock up for two weeks and we gotta get this and doing all of that stuff.
[00:13:24] Anders: Where the hell are we gonna live?
[00:13:26] Laura: I mean,
Anders: I guess we’re gonna live on an island.
[00:13:28] Laura: I'm like, I don't wanna be a farm wife. Like in a traditional sense, like I don't wanna have to get up. This is my stereotypes again, like milk cows and, you know, never go on a vacation ever again because we have to.
[00:13:46] Anne: Cause you have too many livestock and someone has to take care of the chickens
[00:13:48] Laura: Yeah. I mean, well, it's stuff you hear people complain about. Um,
Anne: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Laura: sometimes I feel like the second wife to Anders' garden which is on a, a 10th of an acre right now. and, he's
[00:14:05] Anne: My, My, partner can relate, totally relate. I'm like Oh, do you wanna see all these pictures of my garden? He's like, When was the last time you took a picture of me?
[00:14:13] Laura: Yes. That's a good question. How many times have you taken my picture this summer? None. Anyway. Um, Yeah., and there's this legitimate, like what would we do for income? you know, my role as an artist, I'm doing a lot of gig teaching things. Andrews works at a blood bank, um, managing materials and medical supplies and spreadsheets and deliveries, and I don't really understand it, but we're predominantly financially dependent on your job and your insurance, and that allows me to have work flexibility. so then, you know, if you move someplace and you're not moving for a job, right, what are you gonna do when you get there? so there's that, that's like a whole question too.
[00:15:04] Anne: you know, when I talk to younger people who are trying to figure out what they wanna do, especially like if they don't have a community and the place where they are, it's a lot easier to say, yeah, find the place where you wanna put down those roots. But to people who already have really strong roots, it's really different. Do you think you're gonna make this decision anytime soon? Or is it just going to be a continued conversation? What do you think
[00:16:00] Laura: I also have strongly believed that when it is time or when it is right, we're gonna know. Like we're gonna know . This is right for us now. And I, we haven't gotten there yet. And so I don't know if that's gonna happen.
Anders: Speak for yourself!
Laura: next year or in ten years or, I don't know.
[00:16:18] Anne: Yeah. No, but it's often, it's the person who needs to be a little bit persuaded. Right? Who it like it's something clicks into place. And it's hard to know what that thing is gonna be, cuz clearly it hasn't happened yet,
[00:16:28] Laura: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think I'm now on the, like someday I'm open to it. whereas maybe five years ago I was like, never. Never ever.
[00:16:38] Anne: Yeah, you just said like, you know, a 10 year, 15 year plan. At that point, vegetable gardening will be harder on your back, but still possible.
[00:16:47] Anders: I'll just build to raise beds really high so you don't have to bend over. Lot of automation.
[00:16:52] Laura: We'll have teenagers by then.
[00:16:53] Anders: Yeah. They're not gonna help.
[00:16:54] Anne: This has been a total pleasure and anytime you want, send me a Zillow if you need someone else to be excited about a rural space, cuz I will be excited with you.
[00:17:03] Laura: Thank you so much for having us. It was fun to talk to you.
MIDROLL
NOELLE INTRO
As you heard, wrestling with a small-town move is hard — and layered with considerations about career, kids, diversity, childcare, and friends, or lack thereof —
When you’re single, the decision is just as complex — but your priorities and the questions you ask yourself might be a little different
That brings us to our second guest, Noelle Murrain (MORE-RAIN). Noelle is a 45-year-old Black woman. She’s not married, and not interested in being married, and doesn’t have kids. She’s lived in big cities her whole life – New York City, Los Angeles, Barcelona… but now she’s really looking for a cozy little spot that’s all her own….that hopefully also comes with central AC and a washer-dryer. But we’ll get to that later.
NOELLE INTV
[00:00:56] Noelle: I came to live here [cut] In rural ish Maryland [cut] after being in LA for six years, Cuz I was even at a point in LA where I was like, uh, I kind of don't know if I wanna stay here.
Anne: Yep.
Noelle: I kind of don't wanna move back to New York. and I'm like, well, I'll figure out where I wanna live. It'll be someplace on the east coast, maybe like close-ish to New York. I'm like non-negotiable., I gotta have central heat, heat and air. I'm like, I'm done putting air conditioning in in Windows. And I wanna washer and dryer and I like, I know, that's gonna, you know, up the cost a little bit, but at this point, the price isn't even the issue anymore. It's the where.
[00:02:15] Anne: so, okay, so small town there you can hopefully get something that is not as expensive, and have a little bit more space. What else about a small town is attractive to you?
[00:02:26] Noelle: Just a slower pace. And I say that as somebody who's been working from home mostly since 2013. So my pace has been pretty slow already. there's something about like the energy of being in a city where like the minute you go outside, you already feel tired. It's like too much stimulation. you could know people, but they're kind of all spread. Again, around everywhere. So I just like the idea of like, you know, having a closer community just for me. but also just like, you know, Like I'm not going out until 4:00 AM anymore. like I just, I can't do that. My bones don't work that way. I'm just like, Mm, I will have a mug of tea and go to bed. Please leave me alone, You know? I know what the small town thing is supposed to be, but I'm like, I'm not looking for that. I'm not gonna meet like a rough farmer who just needs to be tamed. Like, that's not gonna happen.
[00:03:41] Anne: It's not gonna be a Hallmark movie.
[00:03:43] Noelle: No , but it, it's, that's how they all are. But I just also just like the idea of settling down and I know that I don't wanna do it in New York City. I don't necessarily wanna do it in any big city, so maybe my search is small city, small town. I wanna be close enough to my family, I don't have to live in the same town or state as them, but be close enough.
[00:04:24] Anne: Yeah. Yeah. Well, to me it sounds like you're a person who, like, you, like hanging out with yourself, right?
[00:04:34] Noelle: I do.
[00:04:35] Anne: And you're, and you're comfortable and confident in what you want and need. And I actually think that that is like a great fit for a small town in so many ways, or a more rural place because oftentimes the people who I find get really unhappy when they move to a smaller place is that they don't actually like hanging out with themselves. Right? And they also, it's, it's like they, the people who go to grad school, cause they don't know what else to do, right? They like move to a small town because they don't know what they actually want.
[00:05:02] Noelle: Yeah, I mean, I moved to Barcelona when I was 28, so many years ago. Cause I'm 45 and I moved there by myself of, I had, you know, I had like jobs that I used to work in publishing and was a publicist I was just like, uh, I kind of want something different. So I moved to Spain. Had never actually been to Barcelona. My point is I made an impulsive move. I'm like I'll get this one way ticket, I'll go move to Barcelona, I'll teach English, and I did, And it was fun. And I think about, okay, Barcelona, yes, it is a city, but it is a city of 3 million people on the Mediterranean. But it was, for me, it was cozy because it was walkable. They had actual transportation cuz some of my classes were in business parks that weren't in the city.so I think part of my idea of being in a smaller town, Is also like it's complicated in that we don't have as much infrastructure for things like walkability. And so I find myself on Zillow looking at these different places and every time I'm like just scrolling down, what's the walk score? Cuz Zillow does that. They have walk scores and I'm like, I'm like, Ooh, 53, that's not gonna work for me. Cuz I can drive. I
[00:06:45] Anne: Uhhuh . Uhhuh . Yes.
[00:06:48] Noelle: And so, you know, if I have to, obviously like I'm not gonna go to Costco walking there. Yes. There's that complication of being single. Yes. There's also me being Black. Then it's like, what is the infrastructure ? Like what, how, How did they build this city, this town?
[00:07:06] Anne: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, does it still feel like a place where people like hang out downtown, where people, where there's an energy in the downtown area? I totally get that. And that to me is like, The commonality in these, like the other people that we're talking to for this podcast is like, is there some sort of energy in the town that makes it feel like there is, like there's a center, right? There's something, there's a gravity
[00:07:30] Noelle: Right. That's the thing.
[00:07:32] Anne: So, Okay. What are you concerned about? you know?I, think one thing that we talked about earlier is that you wanna make sure that there's some way for you to get your hair done. And so would you be able to travel? Would you, do you want someone right there in town? What is your feeling on this?
[00:07:48] Noelle: I'm not unwilling to travel a bit, like, I'll put it to you this way. I know from a retail standpoint, they're not gonna carry everything, like every product that's available, they're gonna carry the product that the people who live there want. So if I go to like your local Walgreens or target, and I don't even see hair products that I can use that are for me. then that tells me something about the community that I'm in. So it's not like you know, if I go to Greece, I'm not expecting them to have all the products that I'm supposed, cause they, that's not their population, but I'm in America. I'm like, well, you don't even have anything.
[00:08:29] Anne: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:30] Noelle: You know? So that tells me a lot about the community of people that live here. my concerns are also political. it just seems to A bigger and bigger thing every day in this country. and obviously like in the places where I've lived, everybody has all kinds of politics, but I know that it's not gonna get to a point where I'm just gonna be like, Well, I'm the only one here who makes sense to me. I'm isolated in this place that I've chosen to live. I wanna feel safe and not, I'm not even talking about like physical safety. I'm talking like mental, emotional safety, . you know, as a child, I didn't think. I was on the trains, on the buses. I was all over the place in New York City. Didn't think about it, but you're always on like guard to like, just make sure no one's doing anything crazy. But in a political sense, do I have to be on guard every time? If you know I'm am I always gonna have to. Feel like I need to speak up cuz someone said something transphobic or homophobic or racist or whatever. Cuz then it's gonna be like, Oh well there goes that, you know, Angry black lady, she's always telling people how to, you know, be politically correct. And I'm like that's not, that's not my life. And I'm not on, I'm not here to like police people's language or ideas.
[00:10:10] Anne: Right. Right. Well, and to have you be like tokenized either, right? like, Well, let's ask the Black person in town what she feels
[00:10:23] Noelle: right? Like, Well, what do you think? I'm Like, What are you talking, Like, why are you asking me this? I don't know what anything about these things. So I say this, like, you know, I've been in a lot of predominantly white spaces. Like when I went to undergrad, it was, it was mostly white kids. Which is, you know, whatever. It was fine. I had a, I didn't have any problems, but I know what that feeling is like about like being in a class, talking about a book or history and just being like, Well, maybe you should think about these things. And just being like, I don't wanna feel that like attention all the time. I think that's one of my main concerns, like outside of if it's walkable, if they have people to do my hair. Am I gonna be tense every time I walk into a situation with my neighbors all the time.
[00:11:11] Anne: Yeah.
[00:11:12] Noelle: Like, I want our attention to be about like, your tree is in my yard. You know, like not
[00:11:17] Anne: yes.
[00:11:17] Noelle: the geopolitical issue of the day.
[00:11:20] Anne: You know, I think it's, it's kind of an interesting question to figure out, since census data is hard to, extrapolate from, since it's old right now. Like, okay, if I go to a community, how can I figure out how many people of color live here besides going to the drug store? Like I think you have to go and hang out for a little bit, you know?
[00:11:37] Noelle: Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to do some, some day trips, I have a friend who lives in Connecticut. She's a really good friend of mine. I've known her since I was 14, and I was like, Well, maybe I could move to connecticut. But I'm like, I don't know. Connecticut's real white. I know there are black people there. I do know that. So maybe we'll see. but it, you know, it all kind of depends. I have to go and like do this reconnaissance, like I can't just, you know, do like I did before and buy my one way ticket and just be like, Oh, I'm, I'm here.
[00:12:13] Anne: And, okay, Good segue. What about dating? So the one thing that I have heard from so many people who live? in small towns is they Like, they swipe through the population pretty quickly.
[00:12:25] Noelle: Well, here's the thing. Dating is difficult regardless, I think. I feel like there's gonna have to be some compromises on my end. Like I am a childless person and I intend to stay that way. but I know the reality of the situation is that at my age it's probably gonna be like, you know, some divorced dads.
[00:13:01] Anne: Totally. Totally. That's such a good point, right? Like
[00:13:04] Noelle: you know? am I gonna have to like get on an app and be like a hundred mile radius? Is that what it's gonna be? As opposed to like, I don't even know, what is it? 10, 5, 10, 15 mile 20 usually.
[00:13:32] Anne: have you tried like setting location on an app to like a small town and seeing what comes up?
[00:13:38] Noelle: I haven't, but I might like, It's interesting cuz I looked at my Bumble, which I don't use that often, but I think my bumble was like open for the, the, the entire United States. but yeah, like the idea of that is just like, I'm gonna have to like, you know, really think hard about like, am I gonna date someone younger? You know? Cuz I'm like, I'm like, at some point you're also probably gonna wanna get married and have children. I don't even know if I wanna get married. I just kind of wanna date and see what happens. .
[00:14:26] Anne: Yeah.
[00:14:27] Noelle: and I know that that's kind of like also bucking against a lot of norms in a way too because I am my age and I've never been married and I don't have kids, and so people are always a little suspicious
[00:14:41] Anne: same. You know, I'm, I'm 41 and am not married and don't have kids too, and they're like, Hmm, something's going on there. And I'm like, I'm really happy.
[00:14:49] Noelle: Right. They're like, What's wrong with you? Yeah. I mean, it was different when I lived abroad and they'd be like, You moved here Oh, with your husband? And I was like, No. and that's when I was like, 28. So now it, it'd be like, Well, you're just a crazy old lady now But like, yeah, what's a dating pool gonna be like, so I think it's gonna be like, this geometry I'll, you have to create my own algorithm. what are the politics, what's the dating pool, What are the demographics? Do you have, can I get like a decent egg roll? , I want a little bit of everybody. I mean, and that a part of that is my bias is of as being someone who grew up in New York. You know, new people from all over the world kind of.
[00:17:46] Anne: yeah, Well, and also the fact that you're like,I'm not starving to get married and have a kid. Whereas if I was interviewing someone and they were like I really wanna find a partner and have kids as soon as possible, I would say, you know, be careful if you're moving to a place with just fewer people generally. But if you're very open to the different types of relationships that you can find, I think. It's an interesting experiment.
[00:18:11] Noelle: Yeah, I just feel like I'm at a point where it's just been like, Well, I know what I'm good. On my day to day. I don't know if I need to complicate it that much with another person,
[00:18:24] Anne: totally is there anything right now that's holding you back?
[00:18:27] Noelle: probably money. I just need to save more money like everything has gone up so much in the last couple years that I'm just.. it's gonna be like a leap of faith regardless of how many places I visit, I'm like, I don't need to make this decision today, but I feel like within the next six months I need to make this decision.
[00:19:33] Anne: Yeah. Well, I cannot thank you enough for coming on. This has been a wonderful conversation.
[00:19:39] Noelle: well thank you so much
OUTRO
We dipped our toe in the whole dating conversation with Noelle. For now, it’s hypothetical.
For next week’s episode, we hear from someone who is dealing with small-town dating RIGHT NOW. What’s it like to date within a smaller pool of people? What do you compromise on and what are absolute deal-breakers? And how much driving are we talking about here? I promise, you won’t want to miss it.
END CREDITS
Townsizing is produced by Neon Hum Media for HGTV. You can follow our show wherever you get your podcasts. If you like the show, we'd love it if you could take a second to leave us a review on Apple podcasts. It helps other folks find the show. I’m Anne Helen Petersen and if you see me online or in real life, be sure to give me that small town wave.